Tuesday, January 16, 2007

Funny, the Sides People Show

Ok, so it's been a while, but then I've been busy with things more important than causing offence here. Until tonight anyway, so here goes.

(Updates at the bottom.)

Steel Butterfly, another NationStates player, recently decided to go active again, and has been posting like a madman. Is there a problem with this, you may ask? Absolutely not. Play is play, and if it makes one happy, I say go for it.

However, when said player starts in with the hypocrisy and such, I tend to arch a brow and ask myself 'wtf'? Steel has often been quick to ask for things to be moved to 'more appropriate' forums when he felt his sensibilities offended or the like. So when he posted his veiled plea for attention on the NS roleplay forum, and several mentioned that this was likely not the best place to put it, and it indeed got moved, it was amusing as hell to see the snit he threw over the whole thing.

I'm going to fill in the gaps with the TG's that went back and forth, so you can enjoy the full effect of Steel: The Man, The Myth, The Meretricious Little Cockmonkey.


It all began, it seems, when Jocabia asked in Moderation about holding a controlled debate thread in one of the RP forums, in an attempt to keep it a bit more clean than the usual way General threads go, considering the OP there does not have thread ownership or control. Needless to say, many RP'ers disagreed for various reasons.

Still, Steel felt it needed more attention, nevermind the fact that things in Moderation tend to get taken care of just fine, so he chose to fan the flames so to speak in International Incidents - which drew some rather heated comments, as one might expect given the 'rivalry' between forums and the like.

He also seemed to feel that posting there was not enough of a draw, so Telegrammed people about it. One of those turned out to be myself, for reasons I've yet to really understand. It reads as follows, seemingly a copy of the post he put in II:


Jocabia is proposing civilized debate threads on real-life issues being allowed in the NS and II forums.

Personally, I find this disgusting. There is enough of that bickering trash in General, and civilized or not, most of it is still annoying "Should Bush Be Impeached" or "Why do Gay People...?" garbage.

Do you want your forum of roleplaying turning into General2? Go to the thread in moderation and show your support for roleplaying.

I didn't appreciate having my TG box spammed with recruitment material of this sort, and wrote back saying as much, accompanied with the phrase 'get over yourself', I'm pretty sure. Possibly not the best thing to say, but at the time I wrote it, I felt it appropriate enough. Apologies, but I didn't save that response in full to share here.

He shot back a short reply about my not being able to predict what the mods would do, his thread was locked, the question about RP/Debate had already been taken care of, and I wrote back stating as much, and asking that he not TG me with this sort of thing again, thank you. End story, or so one might think.

Tonight, he puts up a thread in the NS forum asking for input from people who've interacted with him. Given the content, and the placement, and the fact that he pimped it in an ooc thread about his glorious return to RP, it seemed to be an ego-stroking thread. You can see my response stated as much, yet I did try to illustrate some points, and make some suggestions, if he really were serious about writing.

Surprisingly enough, he didn't take it well.

It also got moved, like all threads of that sort do that aren't spam but don't belong where they were first put - to the Jolt Chat forum. Shock and awe.

Then he chose to complain about it in Moderation, where I had to answer some veiled accusations. I also invited him to continue the discussion in TG if he felt he needed further clarification.

Amazingly enough, he responded with the following:

Dear Nathi,

It appears that I have somehow rubbed you the wrong way as of late. While my internet relations would typically bother me little, I remember our interactions from years ago and had always looked fondly on them.

Your current viewpoint on me is somewhat disturbing. Apparently I am an arrogant, antagonistic child who consistently blows things out of proportion and flaunts my own greatness by way of over-the-top productions in RP’s. Perhaps not surprisingly, that’s not how I typically see myself in the mirror.

Between the “Debates in NationStates” and the “Am I good enough to be a novelist” threads, you have come down on me rather hard, pointing out the above “flaws” that you have either directly or indirectly claimed I possess. It’s somewhat disheartening to see your name pop up randomly where ever I post only to see somewhat of a character attack within your responses or telegrams. I merely wonder why. Do you feel that you need to “bring me down to earth?”

Now, as per your response in the Moderation forum…once again we see you believing I need some sort of compliment in every response I get. Your lack of faith in my self-esteem aside, I still don’t see why you have to travel around, “calling me out” on it, especially when in most cases my intent was far from what you posted it being.

Don’t take this the wrong way, Nathi. I could have merely told you to fuck off or just ignored you, but I feel that neither would have been very productive. It’s not as if I’m infamous for spamming or whatnot, instead my “faults” have been very secluded and very rapidly “pointed out” by you, and the usual small sub-section of mods who feel quite similar to how you seem to. I just want to know what it is lately that has made me so despicable to you. Any enlightenment would be appreciated.


I start to get the feeling he has some personal issues to work out after reading that. Still, he chose to take a tone, so I replied in like kind, trying to address his misunderstanding of the situation and some of his takes on things like 'stalking' and 'posting everywhere I show up', which were weird accusations to say the least, given the circumstances.

I think you’re operating under the delusion that you’re important enough or interesting enough to ‘follow around’, Steel. No one on this game holds that fascination for me, sorry to disappoint. I don’t feel a need to ‘bring you down to earth’. I will however answer truthfully when asked to reply.

I have never once posted ‘randomly wherever you post’. Two threads that you got a negative response in do not a pattern of stalking make, especially when one, you directly ask for the opinions of those who have interacted with you, which qualifies me, and the other, you tg’ed me pimping it after several of us had commented on the Moderation thread concerning it, and you decided, poorly I might add, to go stirring things up elsewhere.

You –have- blown things out of proportion. Your method of delivery –is- overly arrogant, and egocentric. And you do tend to focus on legitimate points concerning that to the detriment of other constructive commentary. Perhaps the problem with your mirror analogy is that we do not see ourselves in the mirror the same way others view us – simple science that, but something to be said for how it works all the same.

Threads of the sort you posted tonight with the ‘Am I good enough’ (a telling indicator in word choice there) have historically been as stated, ego-stroking sorts, regardless of your supposed ‘stated intent’. How you choose to say a thing is sometimes as much or more important as what you say, so stating you what you did or didn’t specifically state is just so much fluff and ass-covering in the end.

I’ve been around long enough (not just on NS, thanks) to know a plea for more attention, intentionally or not, when I see it. I could rattle off lists of what I would class as ‘good writers’ on NationStates who’ve never felt the need to do the same, and seem to get along just fine in whatever life choices they’re making, without drawing everyone’s attention to it with a misplaced thread asking for some form of validation. Those looking for said validation by, and assistance in making life-altering choices amongst the various faceless posters of NationStates, regardless of forum, are likely not ready to be making those choices, for one reason or other. Perhaps you should give that a bit of thought before berating people for suggesting your thread was out of place.

I illustrated quite clearly what ought to be done rather than poll what handful of players might happen to respond to your thread, and you dismissed it out of hand. Not my problem. It’s not as if I’d know anything about it, having never been say, a member of a writing group, or gone through the process of submitting writing, or taken classes on the subject of writing, or done any research on the topic. Heaven forbid you might actually get something out of getting rightfully chewed on a bit.

Honest responses aren’t about hand-holding or coddling all the time, nor does there have to be some great conspiracy, or existing bias aside from a casual dislike of methods and attitudes to prompt someone to call it as they see it. Sometimes the truth hurts, boyo. You can either learn from it and grow from the experience, or continue to believe it’s everyone else’s fault, not your own, and stagnate. Your choice.

I hope some clarity has been achieved.

--Nathi’s Player

You can imagine my surprise when I get this caustic bit of vitriol in response:

I suppose you've made yourself quite clear. It amazes me that someone who is readily convinced that her shit doesn’t stink to throw around accusations of egocentricity, but I suppose that if arrogance is my vice, a “holier-than-thou” attitude is yours. The similarities are somewhat amusing, but I have an idea that you’re not laughing. Unfortunate, to be sure.

As for me “pimping” a thread, I think I need to clear something up. Both the thread in International Incidents bringing people to the cause and the comments in Moderation came before your “pimped-out” telegram. As you so elegantly said to me, don’t operate under the delusion that I would first telegram you to get your support for something before looking elsewhere. You only posted after the telegram was sent. If you didn’t read it until after you posted, then so be it, but that’s none of my concern.

If clarity and mirrors are what you seek, I’d advise you to clean yours. Unlike you I don’t throw my personal attacks around in people’s threads, but as I alluded to before, much of what you dislike about me you exhibit yourself.

You gave me an honest response, but you bookended it with childish flames and personal snipes that you must have thought were witty. Your analysis of my character (a plea for attention) only goes to show how “above me” you think you are. I was humble enough to put my work out there for analysis. Perhaps these “good writers” you know should do the same.

I’m not expecting you to admit it, or even realize it perhaps, but regardless of how crude this may be, I’d advise you to stick your hand down the back of your pants and sniff it, just to see if your shit does in fact stink. I think you’d be surprised at the results.

Congratulations on inspiring me to sink to your level of petty flames. I can only assume this is what you meant by personal growth.



Not only does he seem to again miss points and focus on the 'but you don't like me - WHY DON'T YOU LIKE ME YOU BITCH' crap, but he seems to think I'm somehow saying I'm better than him. I read back, trying to see where I compared myself or my work to him or his anywhere, and fail to find it. I thought this was about him and his seeming feelings of inadequacy - I have plenty of my own without pausing to borrow, thank you very much. I also try to find where it is I 'flamed' him, and where I pulled the same sort of things he did in his response, where he says I inspired him to 'sink to my level' and the like. Again, I fail. Not only did I avoid crudity, but I answered him using his own points, words, and analogies.

Am I supposed to lie when someone asks 'am I arrogant', or is it better to say 'yes, yes you do come across that way'? Have I been guilty of arrogant responses or stances myself at times? Hell yes, and I've never denied it. The stuff he chose to spew however, was both uncalled for, and yes ... childish. The very thing he was crying loudly about not being.

His comment about these 'other writers' putting their work out there for criticism? They do it every time they post on the NationStates forums. I guess he missed that during his ranting, further proving his hypocrisy when he reacted with neither grace nor style when people didn't tell him what he wanted to hear. Nothing 'humble' about that. Along with the fact that I failed to get into an in-depth character analyzation of him. I merely commented on what was offered, and what he said in response. I can hardly be held accountable if he summed up those portions of his character far better than I did himself.

Unfortunately, the proof is in the pudding so to speak, and his continual whines and attempts at vicious little attacks with 'colorful' bits thrown in to make sure I understand just how juvenile he really is in his inability to respond without them, illustrate that he does indeed seem to be, in his own words, 'an arrogant, antagonistic child who consistently blows things out of proportion'.

Alas. I hope it was worth it for him.

UPDATE: Apparently the guy who holds General in such disdain has taken up the habit of posting there to get more face time. Regardless of his previous, and recent posts about how it is an intellectual wasteland with nothing to offer. And posting inane comments that add nothing to the conversation in Moderation, often over the top of Moderator posts that have alreay amply dealt with or answered the problem.

A recent post by The Blastit Empire in the latest ooc thread SB is working up for the next closed RP effort there made me chuckle.

You know, SB...

We, god's gifts, are truly the best.

Mmmhmm. If that's the case folks, God must really love gag gifts.

FURTHER UPDATE: Guess who found his way to IRC? Have to give the guy credit - he took the time to talk, and apologized "for the telegrams and such", chalking it up to taking things too personally. Can understand how that sort of thing can go, and respect an honest effort when its made. I'll be taking it as offered, at face value til proved otherwise (which will hopefully be 'never'), and consider the matter resolved.